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What is required to be an outstanding pvper?
Alot of people tend to say "He fucking rox/pwn/blabla/yada yada" if he can kill several persons at the same time. If he gets imba whirlwind crits or such.
Imo you're not a good pvper before you know all other classes weaknesses and strength, as skills, cooldowns, various normal talentbuilds and such. The players that are considered skilled, do not know these kind of things, as you may notice in the movies. A rogue for example, is it skill to stunlock someone with swords and kill him before he's even able to counter you? Hell no, that doesn't show any skill at all. Just that he has got alot of addons and farmed good gear. :( |
Thats true. Not many people today know what a skilled player really is. And about the rogue stunlock, its not so easy as it looks to keep an opponent stunlocked for so long time
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I think your right about rogues, im a Druid, and if a rogue can keep me stunlocked to where i cant Instant Heal, i consider him a good rogue.
Personally to stand out you need to be the best at what you do, like running the flag :D |
Keeping an enemy stunlocked is one of the hardest things as a rogue. Getting high crits(and only showing them) is NOT skill.
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Different from different persons..
A pvper thats doing something none/few has done before and do it good/better. |
Difference is what I like to see. I really liked Incredible Warrior Tricks.
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I beleive a outstanding PvP is somone who plays there character to there fullest if you can stunlock somone to death do it...if you have the gear/Energy to do it go for it
If you find somone who you can't stunlock to death find another way to kill him thats what i say.:D |
if you ask me.. a skilled player is one that can eighter take a few ppl alone.. or with help but do it fast :) rogues are more or less 1vs1.. and they usually blow EVERY cooldown they have just to beat 1 opponent so you cant really say if a rogue is skilled or not :/
on the other hand.. someone that does high crits.. he can be skilled as long as he does it to a little more than 1 person :) |
a skilled player can beat any1 with any build no matter what they do.
few rogues are skilled players. i meet like 20 rogues aday in EP cause i am lvl 54 on my human mage alt. and i kill 19 out of them and that 1 who kills was only good enough to kill me cause i had cds. and they were all lvl 60. |
LOL this turned in to, what does it take to be an outstanding rogue forum...
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What does it take to be an outstanding pvper?
1. A good internet, low ping 2. Skills 3. Good gear |
well if you say Grim and Perklunt isen't skilled players.. Then.. I think ur dump.. A stun lock cant kill.. Trust me.. Ive tryed it serveral times.. (:.. You can do massive damege but prolly not kill.. Except if doing in players 10 levels lower.. But who does?
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Fair match, full HP, no cooldowns, no imba buffs (on me dunno about him) |
Did I say gear equals skills tho? :P no
I said good gear obviously helps you to be a good pvper. |
Imo, a person who dedicates themselves to thier class, and can immediately enter a situation and know how to play it out in thier mind while they're pvping and able to adapte to changes in thier plan quickly.
I know that I've seen quite a few people, who are able to know how to deal with what class and how, and if their plan fails they immediately change over and adapt to how they can win. |
the OP reminds me of someone on my server, a druid, he had a 60 ofall classes and he knows what to do aghanst every class, he has been GM about 3 times now he owns pritty much everyone who chalanges him
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The problem with WoW, as with many games, is that the "skill" part depends to much on luck.
You can be the most skilled player in WoW, but you will still be beaten if you have bad luck, and you might beat 5 ppl at a time with good luck. Luck is a annoying factor as you can't control it. Be happy when things go right since you will have to go through about 7 wrongs before you get one again. However, at least these points should be filled if you want to deserve the "Skilled player" tag: Being able, and know how to, handle every situation, knowing your class, playing the class and the abilitys to the fullest! Not afraid to do "out of the box" stuff! Not afraid to waste cooldowns! All those things and more and you will be a great player in my eye's! WoW, however, is also a gear dependent game, so beating better geared opponents is also a factor, but then again we have the class VS class issues... Mage vs Warrior and such.. So you see, beeing skilled in WoW is a matter of the taste, skill and what the person thinks a skilled player can do. If a player sucks, there is little effort needed to persuade a person to say you are skilled. If a player is better than you, that person will have problems calling you equally skilled. blablabla...jj |
It's like BF2142 too... you can kill 10 people in a row if you have skills, but you'll always end up dead by grenades or vehicles or air strikes in the end.
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Gear spec n skill
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watch some niar movies and btw its mmorpg not counte-strike u wont see real skill in this game(closest is Niar, he gets 100% from this game) grim is skilled but he didnt proofed that hes more skilled then Niar, he just want to show cd blowing, its not that hard really...
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a great pvper is someone that have mastered the moves while fighting
and also know when to activate the CD's to take a great advantage (in Bg's I mean) killing without getting caught. this is hard and skilled |
here's my list:
a) 100% knowledge of your own class b) knowledge about all other classes abilities and the cooldown on their important spells c) confidence in yourself d) ability to know what your enemy will do (basically this comes with the time..) e) experience is what brings you furthest.. you will know WHAT to do, and HOW to do it and what your enemy might try doing to counter it and be ready to counter them back! |
A good player has to know exactly what their enemy could do, be able to adapt to changes in the fight because there will always be variables, and not only know the moves by the way. They have to judge every angle, know which way to run will get them there fastest. A lot of people consider a good player someone who wins a fight by getting their order of buttons down right. Usually that will win the fight against an average player. If it is up against the best of the best then correct movement is needed, precise timing of moves, precisely thrown grenades if they are going to be used, and using every aspect of the environment around to win.
A lot of aspects about the area are unseen in pvp fights, but they are always there. I have had multiple fights where I was up against unfair odds like my alternate level 31 rogue. I got jumped by a higher level rogue and I used all my cds to get away, unfortunately the rogue could still see me. I kept him stunlocked and kited with crippling poison. I had started the fight with 10% health and lost but had knocked off 98%. Doing things like getting in combo points and then gouging and placing stuns correctly are important as well as getting back in stealth after a gouge. However some aspects that are missed like, I was almost shot in the fight several times but distract saved me out of combat. As a mage blinking behind a caster right as a long cast timer spell was about to be cast. Using quick fake heals (I wouldn't suggest this because in order to win have to assume the opponent is perfect, so don't assume a mistake will be made). Everything has to be done smoothly and done back to back. There is no 1 second delay trying to find the next move. Fast buttons, correct order, correct movement, managing health by staying away from the opponent when necessary like as a rogue keeping the target away until getting energy back. All of these things are a necessity if going up against like 3 tier 2 enemies with blues. It can be done but everything has to be used to the advantage. Line of Sight, maybe mind control cap if capable of using it. Judging when to burst fire the target down. Burning all the CDs right off the bat isn't a good idea all the time. Building health down gradually and then destroying the target before it realizes how low health it is getting is a necessity also. Many times I see other priests that think priests dominate everybody. Not good players. I'm a shadow priest myself and I have dots that heal myself up all the time, but in shadow form renew can't be cast. I realize how fast health can be burnt down by a well-geared opponent. Always have renew up if taking some severe damage. If I get it low, I don't want to have to flash health without a renew up because if I get kicked atleast I have several things still healing me. Anyways that is just what I think is necessary. All things have to be taken into consideration. |
I only read the first page, but I think alot of people miss the point of what it means to be good in PvP.
It starts with knowing the fundementals (basics) of your class, such as strengths and weaknesses and then grows into exploiting in-game skills to reap the greatest results. Know your class before focusing on an opponents class. Take the warrior for ex. Warriors are close ranged, melee combatants. Vs. a hunter, you are prolly gonna get kited, and warriors are no good at ranged combat. You may get off a charge, but in most cases you will end up in combat and unable to use it. Use charge on the pet and then stance dance to berserker and intercept from the pet to the hunter. You gain rage from charging the pet, and while pet is stunned, you gain time to switch stances and intercept the hunter. From there, you focus on your most devistating blows, keeping in mind rage conservation, depending on if the hunter is at full health or if you want a nice execute. Most warriors know that shield bash in Def. stance interrupts casting and pummel in berserker stance does as well. Both also keep the caster from casting a spell of that type for a period of time. So if a warrior comes upon a caster, he should know (regardless wether or not he has knowledge of that class of caster), shield bash and pummel will hault all forms (that current) casting from that target. Once a warrior understands his weaknesses and strengths, he can stop focusing on diff. classes and start using what he has learned from lvl 1 to lvl 60 (70) to put himself into the best position in every situation. (Close gaps, stop casting, immunize to immobilizing effects, dissarm etc.) As for those who think well geared toons who exploit skills that keep an opponent stuned or immobilized in some way, I fail to see your point. It takes time to gear ones self and over that time alot is learned of ones class abilities and also of the abilities other classes posses. (Above I mentioned it is not nessicary to have extensive knowledge of other classes beyond the basic, it does help to delve into other classes strengths/weaknesses) It takes skill, or at least persistance, to get yourself geared up. I would never say that a person who compleatly erased me in a bg is not skilled just because they have a legendary weapon and I am still using a blue. Same goes for armor. I am skilled in PvP, and the better armor I can get ahold of, the longer I can hold out and kill before I end up in a gy. I have read many people critisizing Rogues and other classes for keeping a player locked in position stunned or what have you, but I see no validity in this complaint. If your class offers a way to do this, then by not using it, you are showing a lack of knowledge and skill of your class. Every class has a way of combating another classes skills. If you come across a class you can't pwn, it's because you don't know your class well enough to pwn them. For example: (keeping to the warrior) A rogue is stealthed, you see him/her stealth or hear it. --- Demorilizing shout will break a rogues stealth. Once stealth is broken, you need to get to him/her. If you are out of combat, charge, if not, intercept, if too close, just run in on him/her. First thing you use is rend. No class can go invisible with a dot on it. Next, hamstring, (and if you are an arms warrior, you have a 15% chance of immobilizing target for 5 secs), so he/she cannot run from you. Next is routine, beat the living daylights outta him/her whilst throwing in an extra hamstring before the first wears off. What is not routine is MAKE SURE you keep a REND on him/her. --- If you see a rogue before he/she sees you, charge and rend immidiatly, then hamstring, and follow up with an ass kickin. --- If you get jumped by a rogue, make sure he/she is targeted and spam your FEAR (intimidating shout). When you come out of stun, the rogue will be feared and you will have time to heal/run and intercept, rend, hamstring etc. and then procede to pound the crap outta him/her. These are generic ways that a warrior can combat a rogueish problem. There are always free action potions, signets etc. that can combat immobilzing effects, quicken your running speed and give you an edge in bg's. If anything can possibly reduce a PvP'rs skill in my eyes, it is potions/flasks/scrolls. They are not part of your characters generic spec/class/race and lean a little to the cheating side of purist combat. PvP between all cspec/class/races should be much like equals in a boxing/fencing match. Your skills may differ, but for everything you have, I have a counter, and the one who wins is the one who can counter and reciprocate an attack faster than the other can attack and counter. |
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Stunlocking hard? It's damn boring...it's not hard at all, always the same combo over n over again. Watch energy and do your thing, get 5% hit in pvp and secure that you never miss in pvp. I mean if you stunlocked a few people and pvp let's say 2 days a week and you play rogue for 3 months...you can never ever say stunlocking is hard, if you still find it hard after so many pvp and experience with your own rogue then I don't know what you have been doing during pvp. |
Thats with addons.. If you dont use those stun/energy addons its pretty hard.. and no i dont use them, i think its too easy
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Nerfed?
Warriors got blessed in the latest patch, not nerfed. Also, when BC comes out and we sportin spell reflect, we gonna pwn even more.
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Once again, Niar ftw!
Watch Niar movies! They sooo rock! >=) |
listu!
Well first off a lot of you seems to think that there's a "correct" defenition of a skilled player.... its all about opinions. There's no true or false defention of a skilled player, what one person believe is skill another person believe is "noobish". When I judge a players skill i use a few criteria:
1. Being able to recover from mistakes. Everybody makes mistakes, even tho some makes them more than others. Being able to do mistakes, screw up, and still win the fight by making up for the mistake is skill. 2. Take advantage of others mistakes. Spoting mistakes and take advantage of them to the highest degree possible. 3. Know the game. Not only do you need to know your own class to a decent level, but you also need to know every other class, what their strategys are vs ur class so you can avoid them, what strategys to use vs their class to gain an advantage and know what skills they use so ur able to predict their movements. 4. Reflexes and speed. Good reflexes are required for most classes, especially when it comes to abrupting spell casting or making sure you face the right direction. You also have to be able to think fast to be able to react to different moves/skills/strategys ur opponent uses. 5. Never overkilling. You have to know when CDs/items are needed and when they're not, theres no point in Cold Blood eviscerating with 5 CBs on a player with 5% hp or using powerful CDs vs Classes your class is supposed to beat (assuming there's no gear difference). 6. Gimp yourself! Using alternative builds mainly used for PvE or mainly not used at all (offensive holy priests, pre mage-patch elemental mages, protection warriors etc.) and still do well in PvP. This shows that the player can handle gimped speccs and talent disadvantages, even tho it can be really boring to watch scince they tend to to rather low dps which means long fights (restro druids/shams, healadins, holy priests). 7. Overcoming class disadvantages. Being able to beat classes that is supposed to beat you (Warriors beating mages, rogues beating warriors w/o evasion, mages beating SL locks etc) without gear advantage. 1vsX usually is a pretty good display of skills but different classes have different conditions skill-wise, lots of AoE and crowd controll makes 1vX ez, no AoE and no CC makes 1vX hard as hell. Most 1vX scenes are a well geared player vs X crap geared, or 1 decent player vs X unpreapered muppets who just panics. Imo skill, for most classes, isnt all the important when it comes to pvp. When it comes to Gear, Lagg, Luck etc, a small difference can settle a fight, that 1% xtra dodge can save ur ass, that 200 xtra hp can make you go out of a fight as victor, 3 criting WF procs or a wild 10+ criting spree makes you unstoppable. When it comes to skill there needs to be a rather large difference to decide a battle, as long as both player knows what they are doing and have a decent character controll the fight will be decided by other factors. Ofc some classes are pretty ez mode, while others need to be played well to be good in PvP, but in the long run skill won't win you most of the fights, your class, luck and gear will. |
my friend is skilled
seriously guys, you think Grim is skilled? you think Niar is skilled?
Well I don't think making huge text will convince you at contrary so just watch this because a video will be worth more then a hundred posts:top: http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=32898 -player in blues and greens beating guys in full tier 1, 2 and some fights with 2.5 |
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Learn your class. As well as ALL the others. Seriously. Do some research and practice, practice, practice. Even if it means, respeccing 10 times. I will farm the gold myself and respec each build combination I possibly can come up with to figure out:
(1) What I can use for my benefit. (2) What the enemy uses against me. Do some math on talent calculators for each class. See what they can do and learn how to counter it. Seriously, some time and effort spent in studying classes as well as your own, will pay off in the long run. Be original but sensible. |
Timing.
Awareness. Planning. (Anticipate your opponents next move) Rapidity. Experience. Not hesitant. |
Crits, killing nubs with epic gear while ur blue geared. Editing. Hide when u pot, and remember to spam bombs.
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lol
"Hide when you pot" lol Don't pot. Pots are nice IF used reasonable. Never go into battlegrounds with the expectations of surviving because of your potions. 1) They suck. 2) They have cooldowns...(2-2.5 minutes sucks in pvp) PvP is based on pure skill and the ability to play your class with all of its innate skills to the greatest extent. Some suck. Some pwn. Its all up to you how much you want to pwn. Do some research. My suggestion, like I stated before, is Talent Calculators. Read up on all the classes and right down some information. Trust me, it is well worth it.
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good reflexes
good ping know when to use cds know how to counter your opponents spells |
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