What is required to be an outstanding pvper? - Page 3

DoomSpirit · 12-04-2006, 09:52 PM

a great pvper is someone that have mastered the moves while fighting
and also know when to activate the CD's to take a great advantage (in Bg's I mean)
killing without getting caught. this is hard and skilled

Niar · 12-18-2006, 09:34 PM

here's my list:

a) 100% knowledge of your own class
b) knowledge about all other classes abilities and the cooldown on their important spells
c) confidence in yourself
d) ability to know what your enemy will do (basically this comes with the time..)
e) experience is what brings you furthest.. you will know WHAT to do, and HOW to do it and what your enemy might try doing to counter it and be ready to counter them back!

Snake4210 · 12-19-2006, 02:07 AM

A good player has to know exactly what their enemy could do, be able to adapt to changes in the fight because there will always be variables, and not only know the moves by the way. They have to judge every angle, know which way to run will get them there fastest. A lot of people consider a good player someone who wins a fight by getting their order of buttons down right. Usually that will win the fight against an average player. If it is up against the best of the best then correct movement is needed, precise timing of moves, precisely thrown grenades if they are going to be used, and using every aspect of the environment around to win.

A lot of aspects about the area are unseen in pvp fights, but they are always there. I have had multiple fights where I was up against unfair odds like my alternate level 31 rogue. I got jumped by a higher level rogue and I used all my cds to get away, unfortunately the rogue could still see me. I kept him stunlocked and kited with crippling poison. I had started the fight with 10% health and lost but had knocked off 98%. Doing things like getting in combo points and then gouging and placing stuns correctly are important as well as getting back in stealth after a gouge. However some aspects that are missed like, I was almost shot in the fight several times but distract saved me out of combat. As a mage blinking behind a caster right as a long cast timer spell was about to be cast. Using quick fake heals (I wouldn't suggest this because in order to win have to assume the opponent is perfect, so don't assume a mistake will be made). Everything has to be done smoothly and done back to back. There is no 1 second delay trying to find the next move. Fast buttons, correct order, correct movement, managing health by staying away from the opponent when necessary like as a rogue keeping the target away until getting energy back. All of these things are a necessity if going up against like 3 tier 2 enemies with blues. It can be done but everything has to be used to the advantage. Line of Sight, maybe mind control cap if capable of using it. Judging when to burst fire the target down. Burning all the CDs right off the bat isn't a good idea all the time. Building health down gradually and then destroying the target before it realizes how low health it is getting is a necessity also. Many times I see other priests that think priests dominate everybody. Not good players. I'm a shadow priest myself and I have dots that heal myself up all the time, but in shadow form renew can't be cast. I realize how fast health can be burnt down by a well-geared opponent. Always have renew up if taking some severe damage. If I get it low, I don't want to have to flash health without a renew up because if I get kicked atleast I have several things still healing me. Anyways that is just what I think is necessary. All things have to be taken into consideration.

Rysen · 12-19-2006, 01:41 PM

I only read the first page, but I think alot of people miss the point of what it means to be good in PvP.

It starts with knowing the fundementals (basics) of your class, such as strengths and weaknesses and then grows into exploiting in-game skills to reap the greatest results.

Know your class before focusing on an opponents class. Take the warrior for ex. Warriors are close ranged, melee combatants. Vs. a hunter, you are prolly gonna get kited, and warriors are no good at ranged combat. You may get off a charge, but in most cases you will end up in combat and unable to use it. Use charge on the pet and then stance dance to berserker and intercept from the pet to the hunter. You gain rage from charging the pet, and while pet is stunned, you gain time to switch stances and intercept the hunter. From there, you focus on your most devistating blows, keeping in mind rage conservation, depending on if the hunter is at full health or if you want a nice execute.

Most warriors know that shield bash in Def. stance interrupts casting and pummel in berserker stance does as well. Both also keep the caster from casting a spell of that type for a period of time. So if a warrior comes upon a caster, he should know (regardless wether or not he has knowledge of that class of caster), shield bash and pummel will hault all forms (that current) casting from that target.

Once a warrior understands his weaknesses and strengths, he can stop focusing on diff. classes and start using what he has learned from lvl 1 to lvl 60 (70) to put himself into the best position in every situation. (Close gaps, stop casting, immunize to immobilizing effects, dissarm etc.)

As for those who think well geared toons who exploit skills that keep an opponent stuned or immobilized in some way, I fail to see your point.

It takes time to gear ones self and over that time alot is learned of ones class abilities and also of the abilities other classes posses. (Above I mentioned it is not nessicary to have extensive knowledge of other classes beyond the basic, it does help to delve into other classes strengths/weaknesses) It takes skill, or at least persistance, to get yourself geared up. I would never say that a person who compleatly erased me in a bg is not skilled just because they have a legendary weapon and I am still using a blue. Same goes for armor. I am skilled in PvP, and the better armor I can get ahold of, the longer I can hold out and kill before I end up in a gy.

I have read many people critisizing Rogues and other classes for keeping a player locked in position stunned or what have you, but I see no validity in this complaint. If your class offers a way to do this, then by not using it, you are showing a lack of knowledge and skill of your class. Every class has a way of combating another classes skills. If you come across a class you can't pwn, it's because you don't know your class well enough to pwn them.

For example: (keeping to the warrior) A rogue is stealthed, you see him/her stealth or hear it.
--- Demorilizing shout will break a rogues stealth. Once stealth is broken, you need to get to him/her. If you are out of combat, charge, if not, intercept, if too close, just run in on him/her. First thing you use is rend. No class can go invisible with a dot on it. Next, hamstring, (and if you are an arms warrior, you have a 15% chance of immobilizing target for 5 secs), so he/she cannot run from you. Next is routine, beat the living daylights outta him/her whilst throwing in an extra hamstring before the first wears off. What is not routine is MAKE SURE you keep a REND on him/her.

--- If you see a rogue before he/she sees you, charge and rend immidiatly, then hamstring, and follow up with an ass kickin.

--- If you get jumped by a rogue, make sure he/she is targeted and spam your FEAR (intimidating shout). When you come out of stun, the rogue will be feared and you will have time to heal/run and intercept, rend, hamstring etc. and then procede to pound the crap outta him/her.

These are generic ways that a warrior can combat a rogueish problem. There are always free action potions, signets etc. that can combat immobilzing effects, quicken your running speed and give you an edge in bg's.

If anything can possibly reduce a PvP'rs skill in my eyes, it is potions/flasks/scrolls. They are not part of your characters generic spec/class/race and lean a little to the cheating side of purist combat. PvP between all cspec/class/races should be much like equals in a boxing/fencing match. Your skills may differ, but for everything you have, I have a counter, and the one who wins is the one who can counter and reciprocate an attack faster than the other can attack and counter.

Cryssy · 12-20-2006, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bum

Thats true. Not many people today know what a skilled player really is. And about the rogue stunlock, its not so easy as it looks to keep an opponent stunlocked for so long time

Seriously, you must be joking...

Stunlocking hard? It's damn boring...it's not hard at all, always the same combo over n over again. Watch energy and do your thing, get 5% hit in pvp and secure that you never miss in pvp. I mean if you stunlocked a few people and pvp let's say 2 days a week and you play rogue for 3 months...you can never ever say stunlocking is hard, if you still find it hard after so many pvp and experience with your own rogue then I don't know what you have been doing during pvp.

The Bum · 12-21-2006, 08:49 AM

Thats with addons.. If you dont use those stun/energy addons its pretty hard.. and no i dont use them, i think its too easy

Zaoris · 12-21-2006, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryssy

Seriously, you must be joking...

Stunlocking hard? It's damn boring...it's not hard at all, always the same combo over n over again. Watch energy and do your thing, get 5% hit in pvp and secure that you never miss in pvp. I mean if you stunlocked a few people and pvp let's say 2 days a week and you play rogue for 3 months...you can never ever say stunlocking is hard, if you still find it hard after so many pvp and experience with your own rogue then I don't know what you have been doing during pvp.

Everyone with his/her likings..I personally have nothing wrong with stunlocking and doing those combos.Rogue is the best pvper imo,but you still have to know how to play it.

nobuuz · 12-22-2006, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amoras

Difference is what I like to see. I really liked Incredible Warrior Tricks.

it got warriors nerfed though :p

Rysen · 12-24-2006, 10:55 PM

Warriors got blessed in the latest patch, not nerfed. Also, when BC comes out and we sportin spell reflect, we gonna pwn even more.

Shenna · 12-26-2006, 05:36 AM

Once again, Niar ftw!
Watch Niar movies! They sooo rock! >=)

12-19-2006, 01:41 PM	#24
Rysen Initiate Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4	I only read the first page, but I think alot of people miss the point of what it means to be good in PvP. It starts with knowing the fundementals (basics) of your class, such as strengths and weaknesses and then grows into exploiting in-game skills to reap the greatest results. Know your class before focusing on an opponents class. Take the warrior for ex. Warriors are close ranged, melee combatants. Vs. a hunter, you are prolly gonna get kited, and warriors are no good at ranged combat. You may get off a charge, but in most cases you will end up in combat and unable to use it. Use charge on the pet and then stance dance to berserker and intercept from the pet to the hunter. You gain rage from charging the pet, and while pet is stunned, you gain time to switch stances and intercept the hunter. From there, you focus on your most devistating blows, keeping in mind rage conservation, depending on if the hunter is at full health or if you want a nice execute. Most warriors know that shield bash in Def. stance interrupts casting and pummel in berserker stance does as well. Both also keep the caster from casting a spell of that type for a period of time. So if a warrior comes upon a caster, he should know (regardless wether or not he has knowledge of that class of caster), shield bash and pummel will hault all forms (that current) casting from that target. Once a warrior understands his weaknesses and strengths, he can stop focusing on diff. classes and start using what he has learned from lvl 1 to lvl 60 (70) to put himself into the best position in every situation. (Close gaps, stop casting, immunize to immobilizing effects, dissarm etc.) As for those who think well geared toons who exploit skills that keep an opponent stuned or immobilized in some way, I fail to see your point. It takes time to gear ones self and over that time alot is learned of ones class abilities and also of the abilities other classes posses. (Above I mentioned it is not nessicary to have extensive knowledge of other classes beyond the basic, it does help to delve into other classes strengths/weaknesses) It takes skill, or at least persistance, to get yourself geared up. I would never say that a person who compleatly erased me in a bg is not skilled just because they have a legendary weapon and I am still using a blue. Same goes for armor. I am skilled in PvP, and the better armor I can get ahold of, the longer I can hold out and kill before I end up in a gy. I have read many people critisizing Rogues and other classes for keeping a player locked in position stunned or what have you, but I see no validity in this complaint. If your class offers a way to do this, then by not using it, you are showing a lack of knowledge and skill of your class. Every class has a way of combating another classes skills. If you come across a class you can't pwn, it's because you don't know your class well enough to pwn them. For example: (keeping to the warrior) A rogue is stealthed, you see him/her stealth or hear it. --- Demorilizing shout will break a rogues stealth. Once stealth is broken, you need to get to him/her. If you are out of combat, charge, if not, intercept, if too close, just run in on him/her. First thing you use is rend. No class can go invisible with a dot on it. Next, hamstring, (and if you are an arms warrior, you have a 15% chance of immobilizing target for 5 secs), so he/she cannot run from you. Next is routine, beat the living daylights outta him/her whilst throwing in an extra hamstring before the first wears off. What is not routine is MAKE SURE you keep a REND on him/her. --- If you see a rogue before he/she sees you, charge and rend immidiatly, then hamstring, and follow up with an ass kickin. --- If you get jumped by a rogue, make sure he/she is targeted and spam your FEAR (intimidating shout). When you come out of stun, the rogue will be feared and you will have time to heal/run and intercept, rend, hamstring etc. and then procede to pound the crap outta him/her. These are generic ways that a warrior can combat a rogueish problem. There are always free action potions, signets etc. that can combat immobilzing effects, quicken your running speed and give you an edge in bg's. If anything can possibly reduce a PvP'rs skill in my eyes, it is potions/flasks/scrolls. They are not part of your characters generic spec/class/race and lean a little to the cheating side of purist combat. PvP between all cspec/class/races should be much like equals in a boxing/fencing match. Your skills may differ, but for everything you have, I have a counter, and the one who wins is the one who can counter and reciprocate an attack faster than the other can attack and counter. Last edited by Rysen : 12-19-2006 at 01:47 PM.

12-24-2006, 10:55 PM	#29
Rysen Initiate Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4	Nerfed? Warriors got blessed in the latest patch, not nerfed. Also, when BC comes out and we sportin spell reflect, we gonna pwn even more.

12-26-2006, 05:36 AM	#30
Shenna Initiate Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Here XD Posts: 5	Once again, Niar ftw! Watch Niar movies! They sooo rock! >=) __________________ "Let free the dogs of war!"

12-04-2006, 09:52 PM	#21
DoomSpirit Initiate Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5	a great pvper is someone that have mastered the moves while fighting and also know when to activate the CD's to take a great advantage (in Bg's I mean) killing without getting caught. this is hard and skilled

12-18-2006, 09:34 PM	#22
Niar Hall of Fame member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 2	here's my list: a) 100% knowledge of your own class b) knowledge about all other classes abilities and the cooldown on their important spells c) confidence in yourself d) ability to know what your enemy will do (basically this comes with the time..) e) experience is what brings you furthest.. you will know WHAT to do, and HOW to do it and what your enemy might try doing to counter it and be ready to counter them back!

12-19-2006, 02:07 AM	#23
Snake4210 Initiate Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 8	A good player has to know exactly what their enemy could do, be able to adapt to changes in the fight because there will always be variables, and not only know the moves by the way. They have to judge every angle, know which way to run will get them there fastest. A lot of people consider a good player someone who wins a fight by getting their order of buttons down right. Usually that will win the fight against an average player. If it is up against the best of the best then correct movement is needed, precise timing of moves, precisely thrown grenades if they are going to be used, and using every aspect of the environment around to win. A lot of aspects about the area are unseen in pvp fights, but they are always there. I have had multiple fights where I was up against unfair odds like my alternate level 31 rogue. I got jumped by a higher level rogue and I used all my cds to get away, unfortunately the rogue could still see me. I kept him stunlocked and kited with crippling poison. I had started the fight with 10% health and lost but had knocked off 98%. Doing things like getting in combo points and then gouging and placing stuns correctly are important as well as getting back in stealth after a gouge. However some aspects that are missed like, I was almost shot in the fight several times but distract saved me out of combat. As a mage blinking behind a caster right as a long cast timer spell was about to be cast. Using quick fake heals (I wouldn't suggest this because in order to win have to assume the opponent is perfect, so don't assume a mistake will be made). Everything has to be done smoothly and done back to back. There is no 1 second delay trying to find the next move. Fast buttons, correct order, correct movement, managing health by staying away from the opponent when necessary like as a rogue keeping the target away until getting energy back. All of these things are a necessity if going up against like 3 tier 2 enemies with blues. It can be done but everything has to be used to the advantage. Line of Sight, maybe mind control cap if capable of using it. Judging when to burst fire the target down. Burning all the CDs right off the bat isn't a good idea all the time. Building health down gradually and then destroying the target before it realizes how low health it is getting is a necessity also. Many times I see other priests that think priests dominate everybody. Not good players. I'm a shadow priest myself and I have dots that heal myself up all the time, but in shadow form renew can't be cast. I realize how fast health can be burnt down by a well-geared opponent. Always have renew up if taking some severe damage. If I get it low, I don't want to have to flash health without a renew up because if I get kicked atleast I have several things still healing me. Anyways that is just what I think is necessary. All things have to be taken into consideration.

12-21-2006, 08:49 AM	#26
The Bum Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 442	Thats with addons.. If you dont use those stun/energy addons its pretty hard.. and no i dont use them, i think its too easy