WCM Network: 
 


Go Back   mmorpgforum.net > Machinima > WarcraftMovies.com > Suggestions
Register Projects FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-01-2008, 09:48 PM   #11
Abyzz
Initiate
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 28
Abyzz is an unknown quantity at this point
Looking for a response. Is it out there? Can it be found? Does it exist? *puts on eagle eye vision*
Abyzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2008, 10:19 PM   #12
Dwârv
Senior Member
 
Dwârv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 267
Dwârv is unknown at this point
...but all he could see was the echoe of his desperate questioning,reflecting from the concrete walls of this devasted place....
__________________
RunningDwârv productions
Dwârv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2008, 10:20 PM   #13
Abyzz
Initiate
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 28
Abyzz is an unknown quantity at this point
..."place place place"...
Abyzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2008, 06:53 PM   #14
Uzbeki
Moderator
 
Uzbeki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,261
Uzbeki is unknown at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abyzz View Post
That's a good idea. I'm not sure how your fame system works towards weighing comments against other factors, but the 'best' voters should receive higher weight, so that they at a faster pace get influence to affect the community positively.


It was meant as a way to filter the noise that is the inflation on rating. IMDB.com which is probably one of the biggest rating communities in the world have this "Top 1000 Voters" concept, where their votes are separate in the statistics. The pattern, beyond statistical interference, shows that the top raters are also the toughest raters, rating lower than any other segment of raters in the community. I see no reason why this should not be the case here, and with this icon award the visitor could rest more assured that the listed rating does in fact reflect the content of the movie.
I am just writing a quick response here to let you know I have not forgotten about this, we have just been busy with a few other issues.

All voters have a rating weight assigned to them already. Newbie voters have little impact on the score.
For example http://www.warcraftmovies.com/pv.php?l=Dw%E2rv has 100 (max)
while http://www.warcraftmovies.com/pv.php?l=Abyzz has 61.

In short we have a lot of systems that makes sure that random voters impact on the outcome of the score is minimized, even though there are a lot of "spam" it does not count as much in the end.

I like the suggestion about having the top 100 (or something) voters have their own "award" each week. I will crunch the numbers and see how much it differs from the "general" opinion and present it here next week.

I will respond to the other suggestions after the weekend.
__________________
Founder and Lead Admin
WarcraftMovies.com
Uzbeki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2008, 07:03 PM   #15
Abyzz
Initiate
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 28
Abyzz is an unknown quantity at this point
Thank you for clearing that one out for me Uzbeki, and thanks in general for being so busy all the time trying to improve the site for everyone's pleasure. It can't be said too often, but what you've created with WCM really is a remarkable achievement, and these days I reckon few don't know of its existence. How can we not honor that you're busy contributing to that!?

...So if me or some of the other forum monkeys at times seem a little impatient just think of us as grumpy old farts who haven't got around to train the 'Patience' skill for a wee too long - deep down we still love you and all your efforts towards making this a better place to be - though sometimes it's hard to admit!
Abyzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2008, 12:15 PM   #16
K21Nova
Initiate
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15
K21Nova is an unknown quantity at this point
I posted about this in another thread some time ago, but since this thread is continuing the discussion about the rating system, I thought I'd bring up my suggestion once again.

Now, this isn't a finalized system of rating that I'm suggesting, but rather just an idea about what the rating system could move towards.

I suggested a mutually exclusive system of ratings.

One system would be for the machinima-based ratings, where people who actually care about the video as a machinima would rate it for quality, editing, and these kinds of values.

The other system would give a few rating choices for the player's PvP prowess and such.

Now, I am well aware that at present WCM indeed has a skill point system alongside the machinima rating system, BUT...

What I was suggesting would make the rating systems mutually exclusive.

What this would mean would be that people would have to choose which way to vote...whether to give the author ratings for PvP skill etc, or whether be shown to the community as a machinima critic.

This way you couldn't give a video 5/5/5/5 (in machinima scores) and a skill point just because it's Niar. Or some similar situation.

Also, taking this idea further, we could have two "tabs" of comments. Perhaps give the "e-peen" community the topmost tab, the one with the PvP and skill related scores and comments, and then underneath that the actual ratings for the video itself, with it's own comment area.

Whether that's possible to do without going to extremes codewise, I don't know. My web knowledge stops at XHTML and CSS2.

The idea still remains though. Reading through the comments of the videos I download, which are quite often PvP videos, although I'm more of a storyline buff, I see so so SO many 5's and 1's with completely asinine comments which have absolutely nothing to do with the what the rating system is all about.

One reason why I believe people DO downrate and uprate is either to feel better about themselves and put down the other person in any way possible, OR they're acting a bit like fanbois. Not the ONLY reasons for downrating/uprating but I'm sure one of the biggest one.

Maybe with 2 separate and mutually exclusive rating systems these upraters and downraters would stick to the PvP side, and thus the value of the machinima scores would be a bit higher.

After all you can never get rid of all the people who take part in this downrating/uprating of videos, and even with a dedicated LEGION of people removing most of the 1's and 5's, there'd STILL be quite a few ratings which were given for nonsensical reasons having nothing to do with content and quality etc.

Anyway, that's an idea, and maybe it could spark something even better.

- Nova
K21Nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2008, 04:00 PM   #17
Abyzz
Initiate
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 28
Abyzz is an unknown quantity at this point
Definitely an interesting idea you got there Nova, and I like your take on rating psychology. If you don't mind I'll try to give my view on it.

The issue about making exceptions and rating criteria for certain movies (one that has been discussed briefly in this topic), is that fundamentally by narrowing something down, you remove some of the receiver's freedom of choices. Making machinima ratings for machinima movies only would force me to rate PvP movies solely based on player prowess, and neglect the aspects of presentation that are still vital to any movie, regardless of genre. Giving a PvP movie top grades based on the speed of reflexes is like basing the purchase of a Ferrari on the amount of horsepower it has - there's more to it than that.

Then comes the issue with cross-genre movies. When you think about it not all movies are pure PvP or pure machinima, but have elements from other genres in them - elements that you as a rater need to be able to evaluate. And for that to work, you need more exceptions, more rating criteria, and ultimately a bigger headache in giving your verdict. It may be more representative for those who care to take it more seriously, but unfortunately this specie amongst WCM users is a rare one, and the efforts made by these individuals easily drown in the swarm of win/fail grades.

How could we counter these two aspects in any other way than to simplify things?
Abyzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 09:08 AM   #18
K21Nova
Initiate
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15
K21Nova is an unknown quantity at this point
It's true that making people choose whether they rate "skill" or the video itself takes away their freedom to do both.

Then again, if you have both systems side by side, like you have now, you'll end up with a lot of 5/5/5/5 -ratings from people who think the guy in the video is skilled, even if the video itself is raw fraps footage with an ugly UI, made into a very basic video with Windows Movie Maker by slapping on some Disturbed, and thus would deserve most likely more of a 3 than a 5.

You know what I mean?

Perhaps if one's fame reaches a certain point they can rate both sides? Perhaps "good authors" and premium members can do so, etc?

Or perhaps some other system or idea that's not been mentioned yet.

I just wish that at least most of those "ZOMG ITS NIAR LOLZ I GIEF 5!11" and similar people, people who rate for the person in the video, for the skill or whatever, for a song or music in general, and mostly just ignore what the rates should be for, could be gotten rid of, or better yet, educated and conformed into actually serving the rating system instead of screwing with it.

I'll keep my thumbs up. Awesome site, nevertheless.
K21Nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 11:25 AM   #19
Abyzz
Initiate
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 28
Abyzz is an unknown quantity at this point
I think the problem is that you're trying to adjust the system to the flaws of human beings, and by doing so only increase the amount of limitations. If Niar gets an auto-5 then it's because he's done something in the past that in the viewers eyes makes him worth more than he is - it's a common feat really, to favor something you know is good. If you were handed a Coke, weren't you more prone to like the content than if you were handed, say, a Jolly? No system can change these psychological aspects.

The idea of using certain rankings to alter the possibilities to rate could work, and would help filter the useless spam, and make it less influential. Fundamentally, those who are more serious about the system should have more impact on it. There's already weighting in the impact of your rating though (depending on much more than just Fame), and to take it a step further is overkill I think.

I personally suggested that the "Skilled?" button were added to the rating perimeters, but that still doesn't solve the issue of not taking any (or every) perimeters seriously when rating, and to solve that you need to merge them. Put simply, forget all about these different variables and make one bar with, say, 10 stars in it that says "Rating". We might not be able to tell the audience that it's a good movie but with bad editing, but who cares anyway? How many won't download a movie that's rated 4.5 overall, if editing is only 3? Besides, we have the comments to elaborate should there be something worth noticing. Forget about complicating things, about giving special people advantages, adding perimeters for special movie genres, or trying to counter people's motives. There is no such system as a 100% accurate system, and embracing this fact I think it's best just to let the numbers do the talking. The more who rate, the more representative it'll be, and with an easier system chances are more will rate - and that their ratings will actually better match their impressions.

Last edited by Abyzz : 05-07-2008 at 11:28 AM.
Abyzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2008, 09:03 AM   #20
Uzbeki
Moderator
 
Uzbeki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,261
Uzbeki is unknown at this point
Regarding the "Top Selected" highest rating during last week.
Minimum amount of voters: 5

Voters with over 50 fame
------------------------
title average amount
Tactical Guide - Illidan by Tamzin 5
Hunter Vs World 8 - Solo-ology 4.98
Thrall's Crib 4.95
The line must be drawn here! 4.89
First of May 4.86

Voters with over 65 fame
------------------------
title average amount
Hunter Vs World 8 - Solo-ology 4.96
The line must be drawn here! 4.93
Through the Roof 'n' Underground 4.84
Thrall's Crib 4.8
Nutty v1 - Mage PvP 4.78

Voters with over 75 fame
------------------------
title average amount
The line must be drawn here! 4.97
Through the Roof 'n' Underground 4.82
Nutty v1 - Mage PvP 4.8
BeoCraft Comparison 4.75
Untouchable Rogue 1: Mother Shahraz 4.6

Voters with over 85 fame
------------------------
title average amount
The line must be drawn here! 5


I looks like Fame ~75 might be a good number. Any suggestions to what we should call this new Achievement?
__________________
Founder and Lead Admin
WarcraftMovies.com
Uzbeki is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Forum time (GMT) 04:07 PM


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.12
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.