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Old 01-06-2008, 11:03 AM   #1
Deleo
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Rating System Sucks (RSS)

First we all like warcraftmovies.com. It's simply the best for WoW movies. But I think the current rating system sucks big time. For example what does creativity have to do with an arena movie ? or Why an arena movie should be down rated because of bad music (Arena is about skill not music)?

Changing the current rating system completely doesn't seem like an option here since there are already more than 3000 rated movies, so the only way is modifying the current one. Here are my suggestions :

1- Video and Audio quality should be separated.

2- I think the only way to make the current rating system more realistic is having some category-related factors, like :


Music :
  • Content Factor : 15
  • Creativity Factor : 20
  • Editing Factor : 15
  • Video Factor : 10
  • Audio Factor : 20

Arena :
  • Content Factor : 20
  • Creativity Factor : 1 (or even 0)
  • Editing Factor : 10
  • Video Factor : 15
  • Audio Factor : 5

3- There must be a definition about what each category is about. Like some page that describes what are important things in each category and what to expect from an [X] category movie. Of course no one will read it except a few but sooner or later the idea will spread out among most of members and they will know what to expect from each category (examples : 1- World pvp is about handling multiple opponents and high crits plus really fast kills and it's not about skill... 2- Arena pvp is about skill and it's not about high crits and entertainment... and so on)

I believe this will make ratings more helpful and realistic.



I haven't read the other posts so don't blame me if there is already another topic about this.



Edit :
I think this should be moved to "WarcraftMovies.com Feature Requests/Suggestions" section . Just saw it

Last edited by Deleo : 01-06-2008 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 01-06-2008, 10:07 PM   #2
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I agree yet disagree on certain points.

The rating system does need to be expanded to include just a tad bit more..

However your opinions on what should count higher in rating are way out of line.
No category should count any more so than another category, as not everyone is the greatest in skill of everything. The worlds best editor might absolutely suck at picking out music, but would still get a decent rating if it was an arena video?

I agree the system needs to be expanded, but not in the ways that you think.
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Old 01-07-2008, 01:09 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleo View Post
3- There must be a definition about what each category is about. Like some page that describes what are important things in each category and what to expect from an [X] category movie. Of course no one will read it except a few but sooner or later the idea will spread out among most of members and they will know what to expect from each category (examples : 1- World pvp is about handling multiple opponents and high crits plus really fast kills and it's not about skill... 2- Arena pvp is about skill and it's not about high crits and entertainment... and so on)
I'm also all for a change to ratings, but why should x category be limited to y criteria described here? Some of the best videos hosted here have gone against the grain as far as what should be expected in a certain genre.

There's no reason to say arena videos can only be judged upon player skill, or world pvp not upon player skill. It should be left to the author to decide what they want to show.
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Old 01-07-2008, 07:49 AM   #4
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To Vandalist (Really like your "Christmas Time in Dun Morogh")

I don't get your point Vandalist so I'll consider that the word Category in you post refers to

1 - Music / Comedy / Storyline / ... (Different Movie types) : No category is higher than any other category. Those are just factors and at the end all ratings are from 5 for all categories if that is what you mean. Those factors purpose is to increase the effect of more important elements of a movie like creativity for a comedy movie (which is more important than video quality imo) and again those numbers above are just examples for better understanding (or maybe complete misunderstanding ).

2 - A-V Quality / Creativity / Content ... (Different Rating Categories) : In this case you just explained exactly why my idea about giving weight (factors) to different categories is brilliant. World's best editor that is making a PvP movie just need skill and editing abilities and he doesn't need any creativity or doesn't have to be a music genius. A rock star doesn't need to be a pop star as well, because simply he is a rock star.

To Waverian

As I mentioned above those are just examples. The idea is not limiting any of categories. It's about knowing more important elements of each category (specially pvp category). Yet another example: Those people who watch an arena movie and down-rate it because it wasn't entertaining. It's not supposed to be entertaining although good music will make it better but at the first place it's supposed to be instructive and showing skill.


///////////////////////////////////////////The point///////////////////////////////////////

Just consider these questions :

1- Does music quality has the same importance in both Arena movie and music movie ?
2- Is creativity in a PvP movie as important as it is in a Comedy movie ?

The point is rating movies depending on their category.

Enough babbling for me
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Old 01-07-2008, 08:37 AM   #5
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The rating system needs a way to have certain votes overturned and removed from the movies overall rating.

I dont know about you but Im getting very sick of seeing "Metal sucks, get real music" then the person rating everything as 1.
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Old 01-07-2008, 04:10 PM   #6
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Although I don't agree with everything you got some good points. First and foremost I think we need to add a definition of each rating category like you have suggested. Audio and Video quality is not a rating of the music choice but a rating of the quality of the actual sound and visuals. By explaining this better to the users we will hopefully get a less downrate because of music choice.

We have a number of systems in place to keep downraters away.
1. You need at least 2 fame to vote.
2. You can report comments by clicking the red x in the corner of the comment.
3. Reports can generate warnings, if the user gets 3 warnings he cannot rate. The user also looses a lot of fame with each warning.tr
4. We use a weighted system which means a user with few comments and ratings will have less impact on the overall score than a long time user.

We also very recently added the Skill system which is only used for PvP/Arena movies. Check out this movie. http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=54037 Even though it has a fairly low rating it still is the #1 skilled movie on the site. This means it has been up on the latest achievements two times as most skilled this week. We are going to make changes so that PvP movies rely heavier on the skill values in the future. For example we will put up at top skilled this week list on the front page with the 5-10 most skilled movies.

As a last note, if you ever see someone downrate a movie because of music; click the red X. Chances are that the guy will get warned or even banned.
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Old 02-16-2008, 09:38 PM   #7
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I think, the rating system as it is now (with the skill rating) is very good. The only bad thing about it: Hundreds of videos just disappear in the mass of below 4.5 and nobody watches them ever again, because there are so awful many. If the first 4 viewers are in a bad mood, that's it for the video. But you can't change that. Perhaps if you would separate the ratings of the videos made by professionals with a hole lot of sponsors and shit from the ones who do it all by themselves, some nonprofessionals would gain more attention.

By the way: I'd like to have a separate list for new released music videos, or embed it in the list with the ones with "story", cause often they have more story than the others. Would help the people like me who have no voiceactors and therefor take a song to underline a story. Try to make a story with just one female voice if your mainlanguage isn't even english... thats not funny.
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:09 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uzbeki View Post
As a last note, if you ever see someone downrate a movie because of music; click the red X. Chances are that the guy will get warned or even banned.
I personally agree that you shouldn't downrate a video just for the music; however, music is indeed a part of the video, and if someone feels the music doesn't fit the video, then they should be able to voice their opinion through the rating system. I suppose the choice of music falls under the category of content.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uzbeki View Post
We have a number of systems in place to keep downraters away.
How about the opposite of downraters, people who give a video a solid 5 just because it's from a guy X? People who give a video a full 5/5/5/5 because there was a song they like in it, and so on? There are tons and tons of those people rating the videos.

I don't like to throw around the word "fanboi" too much, but judging by the comments of some people on some videos, they're simply disregarding the video itself, and giving full points just to uprate the video as a favor to the author.

Then there's the question of "skill". People give average, or even bad videos full 5's because they think the person in it is skilled. There's a separate skill point system so this shouldn't happen, but it does. I've watched a multitude of videos with a rating of 4.50-4.90 or so, only to find out they're not really good videos at all; just fraps footage of arenas with some mp3's slapped on top.

Maybe if there were two different rating systems, at least for PvP-oriented videos? The one there is now, but then another, similar one below it, which would have 2-4 ratings for things like "skill", "style", "originality" etc, and it would read clearly that those ratings are for the PvP within the video.

And here's the catch: if you'd choose to rate the video (content, creativity etc.) you couldn't rate the skill of the player, and if you chose to give the player 5 points for skill and style and whatnot, you couldn't touch the ratings for the actual video.

This way we could end up with a video that would have a rating of around 3.50 since the video itself wouldn't be anything spectacular as far as editing and creativity etc. goes, but then have a high, 4.50-4.90 skill/style/etc. rating.

I don't post on these forums much, but I do watch warcraftmovies.com, and it bothers (at least) me that there are hundreds upon hundreds of ratings of "5.0" on videos that deserve a 3, just because it happens to be some "legendary" player. That makes me often want to not rate at all as my rating would be most likely closer to 3 than 5, and when I do rate it "down" from what it seems to be, I feel like a criminal, even though I'm sure I'm right in saying there's nothing spectacular in said video.

Also, these people who uprate videos that do not deserve such a rating water down the ratings of the videos that actually DO deserve it. Let's face it, you can have a video with a rating of 4.90 made with Windows Movie Maker in a few days out of raw fraps footage with a rather ugly UI, with some mp3's slapped on it (with the tag "mute if you don't like", which I find absurd), just because it's from a certain player.

And then you can have a video that has taken months upon months of creating, with music made by the author(s) themselves, utilizing two or more editing software, with creative editing and all that jazz, with a rating of 4.90, and somehow things just don't seem quite right.
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Old 03-18-2008, 03:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K21Nova View Post
Maybe if there were two different rating systems, at least for PvP-oriented videos? The one there is now, but then another, similar one below it, which would have 2-4 ratings for things like "skill", "style", "originality" etc, and it would read clearly that those ratings are for the PvP within the video.

And here's the catch: if you'd choose to rate the video (content, creativity etc.) you couldn't rate the skill of the player, and if you chose to give the player 5 points for skill and style and whatnot, you couldn't touch the ratings for the actual video.

This way we could end up with a video that would have a rating of around 3.50 since the video itself wouldn't be anything spectacular as far as editing and creativity etc. goes, but then have a high, 4.50-4.90 skill/style/etc. rating.
Hi K21Nova,

This part actually sounds interesting, I'm not 100% satisfied with how the ratings combined with "skilled" turns out atm either. Maybe a use of your 5 skill points per week is enough for that user and the comment can be combined with the skill points instead of a rating biased on "skill".. We'll look in to this, thanks for sharing your thoughts.
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