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Old 05-26-2008, 01:02 PM   #31
Abyzz
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I understand your concern, but as with this thread it is all about being constructive. Rating states the evaluation, and the comments explains that evaluation - hopefully - in a constructive manner. Saying that editing is average is a repetition of the score and doesn't really offer much in the sense of suggestions to improve, or a statement of why it is average. That said I don't believe your comment should receive anywhere near -9, but there seems to be a pack-instinct with the community in that if a comment is highlighted or blown to pieces it will emphasize itself until the point of absurdity.

And then of course there's the ones that completely abuse the system to prolong their figurative e-peens, awarding themselves 17 points in one comment stating "Cool." with the standardized 5/5/5/5 so that they top the Voters Points list.

But to return to the subject: if you feel the current system is unfair and unbalanced, what would you suggest to improve it? Anyone can spot a problem, but to come with a working solution is what really matters.
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Old 05-26-2008, 03:53 PM   #32
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One of the reason why its easy to spot flaws in the rating system is because we offer a lot of transparency. On for example YT you cant see what a person rates. You can only read the comment. Who knows what the person rated really? In fact most video sites does this.

Maybe we should just make all ratings 100% anonymous like everyone else does to make it impossible to criticize it?
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Old 05-26-2008, 04:33 PM   #33
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...and delete the plus/minus button on comments as well? Cause this is what you would have to do to get the result you want: avoid criticizing.
With all it's weak spots I still think that the maximum transparency way is the one you should stick with.
@ Abyzz:...and yeah, this problem you mentioned about dopning your own comments (and top 50 voters position) made me already write a PM - unanswered by now.Like this the list makes no sense at all, but I think it's a problem WcM could fix (and I thought they allready did, until I was proofed wrong) - and in my humble opinion they should...or delete this list.
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Old 05-26-2008, 06:46 PM   #34
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The thing about giving everyone the ability to influence the votes of others (with the - and + system), is that it's just a way to shut down minorities.

I mean, being in a minority is difficult as it is, but if you give the majority the power to remove your voice (by voting your comment/rating down to oblivion), then what's the point of even rating anything?

There are always minorities. Either the minority dislikes a movie, or likes a movie, but that's the whole idea behind a voting system; everyone votes, and in the end you get a result.

This sort of system kind of removes minorities and makes the system more and more black and white.

Add the fact that there indeed are...zounds of people giving full fives for no good reason, or for the complete wrong reasons, and if you on the other hand rate for the right reasons, and they don't like it, say goodbye to your rating.

Well.. I know I should give an example of a better system, but right now all I can think of is that in extreme cases the + - system doesn't work.

In extreme cases Mr X publishes a video, Mr X's followers and fanbase and whoever liked Mr X's moves give full fives, and along comes someone who thinks that fraps and mp3's and windows movie maker a good movie maketh not and this someone's voice and rating ends up voted down and disappearing.

What then would be a better system? Sigh, if only I knew. A more in-depth extensive rating questionnaire perhaps?

Ok, what about this?

Instead of having four different ratings, make it so that you can rate a video either 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5, and if you REALLY care enough, you can go into a more extensive rating panel with like I dunno TEN different ratings.

This way most of the e-peen point givers just throw the 5 mainly because that's the easy way, and people who care will open up the actual rating panel and think about the ratings and rate accordingly.

Then perhaps show more information on the rating of the video, and somehow separate the "fast ratings" from the in-depth ones.

I dunno.

Something to remove the "ZOMG I GIEAF 5/5/5/5/5/5 CUZ ITZ MING AN I WUNA B LIEK MING WEN I GREW UP!111leventy" -votes (sigh, im tired...sorry)
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Old 05-26-2008, 08:21 PM   #35
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K21Nova:...don't get it wrong - the rating will not disappear/be excluded, even if the comment get's flooded with minus clicks.
I personally open ALL hidden comments because I want to know for what reason the user got the minus clicks.So for me these comments/ratings don't disappear into oblivion, they are just one click away.

And lets face it:the more popular WcM becomes,the more childish fanboys will drop in,the more stupid comments and senseless ratings we will see here.This goes along with a massive load of frapsed PvP "movies",wich nobody but the maker him/herself cares about.
Pretty soon this site will be youtubed, like it or not.
Right now you can literally observe average quality of movies / ratings / comments / ratings on comments dropping down more every day.
I will stick with the dying corpse as long as I can bear it.

What I want to say is:WcM will not get rid of this, it will get worse and I can think of no rating system to get around this.
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Old 05-28-2008, 08:10 AM   #36
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I just thought I'd draw your attention to the recent movie Solo Onyxia.

I just went through about 20 pages of the comments there, and just about all I see is people giving it 1 star for reasons having nothing to do with the video itself, and calling the author names.

Also, almost any and all ratings of 3 and above have been voted down, some even down to -10 or less, even though the ratings themselves seem completely legit and most have very decent comments in them as well.

Just to give you some examples:

Quote:
Nicely done. And clever to use a dead hunter to circumvent Blizzards inability to fix the Warder bug.
^ 3.8 rating, voted down to -9.

Quote:
I kill onyxia all the time for gold. Normaly whit a group of 3 so its nice and easy, but the i did was 2 man, resto shaman(me) whit a retpaly. I realy enjoy that kind of movie and now i cant stop tinking of a way i could do a solo as resto shamy
^ 4.2 rating, voted down to -10.

Quote:
Content3 Creativity2 Editing4 Quality5 Gratz for the kill. >>>Now someone has to solo Ony AND the Warden<<<
^ 3.5 rating, voted down to -4.

Quote:
Impressive even with help with the warder you did solo onyxia herself and I give you props. nice job
^ 5.0 rating, voted down to -4.

...and then some from the other end of the spectrum:

Quote:
DIE PLS MOTHERFUCKER
^ 1.0 rating, voted up to +2.

Quote:
Grats on the kill, asshole.
^ 1.0 rating, voted up to +1.

Quote:
I dont usually rate movies but I just find your attitude disgusting go die please
^ 1.0 rating, voted up to +1.

The last two pages of ratings have all their comments hidden. Positive ratings, so no surprise there. Anyway, just thought this needed to be underlined.

I guess you can either not let people comment at all, or you can let them comment and have the site turn into a flaming and bashing forum. Wish there was a third option. :S
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Old 08-22-2008, 09:09 PM   #37
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This may be a little off the current topic but I'd just like to share a report I just sent in regards to:

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=69001
Quote:
The editing was the only good thing about this movie
1/1/5/1 - 2.0
The Report To Moderator:

You sit at a keyboard. I, not knowing what you do, who you are, and if you are really reading this. And if you shut down this report, there will be nothing I can do. I won't even know. But I wonder, to whom ever is reading this, what extent do you care - to what extent can you remove comments. Even so, unless I remember the people before/after the person I'm reporting, I won't even know if it worked.

You read report after report probably, bored, and without much worry whether one slips by. Call me stupid for caring, laugh at me for taking it so serious. It's not the comment or rating that bothers me, it is the person. The person that decided to try out intelligence. The person that realized he can downrate because it's so easily accessible but does so for no reason. And I wonder, who else is in that category.

What justifies whether a comment is deemed removable? Only you can answer that question. I have a video. If opinion could somehow be fact, fact would be that my video cannot be rated a 1 in any category. But what makes my opinion any greater than others? That's where your system breaks down. Where fact and opinion intertwine and the ultimate decision of right and wrong is decided upon an individual who, is just as susceptible as the next.

This man's rating is unacceptable. He acknowledges the editing (Good = Five?) but without thought, gives everything else a one. Be someone that makes the right decision this time.
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Old 08-22-2008, 09:18 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abyzz View Post
But to return to the subject: if you feel the current system is unfair and unbalanced, what would you suggest to improve it? Anyone can spot a problem, but to come with a working solution is what really matters.
Unfortunately, that's not my job. But in between free time I'd love to help, as long as I'm not the only one fixing it (sometimes you need others to point out things you forget), and I got acknowledgment. One major problem (and same for many others) I don't post a lot about balancing World of Warcraft is that they don't respond; at least in a manner where they heard you.
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Old 08-22-2008, 09:32 PM   #39
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Quote:
And lets face it:the more popular WcM becomes,the more childish fanboys will drop in,the more stupid comments and senseless ratings we will see here.This goes along with a massive load of frapsed PvP "movies",wich nobody but the maker him/herself cares about.
The simplest instantaneous fix is focusing on rating weight.
But for the ultimate system, its much more complex.

It would probably involve revitalizing the entire rating system; in turn, Fame, and Rating Weight. The rating system has to be based more on fact than opinion. There are several obvious reasons but an important thing to look at is that most people look at the rating before choosing to download.

If its based on fact, it creates more realism. A description to this will also be helpful. If the new ways to rate can be established, you can move onto creating a balance of well-informed voters - stopping the up and down raters from rating or making a huge impact.

Even this won't be enough.
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